http://forum.molinology.org/index.php Fri, 18 May 2012 09:53:39 +0200 Phorum 5.2.10 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,82,92#msg-92 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,82,92#msg-92 As owner of a historic watermill in France I was confronted with quite a number of (administrative) obstacles when I wanted to restore the dam. I joined associations, informed myself and, over the cause of years, have become quite experienced in the French legislation.
In order to turn the tide and with my background of business consultant, I created a business plan for promoting the restauration of mills, and used that plan to create a draft text for European Directive to protect mills. I want to share this document in its actual state. Work is ongoing, this in corporation with 'Vlaams Molenforum', the French FFAM, the SPAB in the UK and a number of other contributors.
Objective is to create a draft of proposal for European Directive, this by spring 2012.
Any input or feedback is more than welcome. I am looking for a number of active participants contributing their part to the draft directive.

You can join me by mail of course, I am on Skype, and have a telephone number in Belgium (+32 50 36 00 77) where I stay until beginning february. After that I am down my mill: +33 563 76 30 74. My mobile phone is only functional when in Belgium, otherwise no signal. Number is +32 496 57 43 68.

I am looking forward to help starting an active forum on the subject. Awaiting any proposal (English, German, French or Dutch language no problem)

Happy new year, best miller's regards.

Jan Spaens]]> Jan Spaens Molinology Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:51:15 +0100 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,91,91#msg-91 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,91,91#msg-91
I am making another scale model for a watermill museum & although I have the wonderful book 'Norse Mills of Lewis' by Finlay Macleod I can't see enough detail of the roof covering below the thatch.

Although some of the photo's in the book show some derelict mills from the 1930's era with part of the roofing structure still visible and it shows cladding with boards under the thatch but this is not the traditional way from earlier times.

The question is, was it turf or large pieces of thin stone that was laid across the timbers prior to adding the thatch? I can see that the thatch was made of a broken mishmash of straw resulting from hand threshing and then packed thickly under old fishing nets weighted down by stones. As the model will show part of the interior with a cutaway section the underside of the roofing will be visible so I want to get it right.

Vic]]> vicnewey Molinology Tue, 08 Nov 2011 12:53:45 +0100 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,90,90#msg-90 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,90,90#msg-90 Thank you in advance!
Katrin]]> Katrin Poell Molinology Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:44:42 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,82,89#msg-89 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,82,89#msg-89
Regards,

André]]> Akoopal Molinology Mon, 10 Oct 2011 23:45:23 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,82,88#msg-88 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,82,88#msg-88
If there were reactions, you should have read them here. It would be nice if you can give a link to the articles you mention, and perhaps even give a summary of the content.

Regards,

André]]> Akoopal Molinology Sun, 02 Oct 2011 23:36:21 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,82,87#msg-87 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,82,87#msg-87
Any reaction to your post?
Do you know if the declaration that was signed during the Symposium is on-line? I didn't find it but I don't remember the login.
During last weeks some progress has been possible in Spain about this question, since molinological associations were invited to take part in the political working groups that are going to organise river basins: for more information, see the newsletter of ACEM (Molinum), published in the website of Juanelo Turriano (in spanish, but with google...).
Best regards

Cláudia]]> Cláudia Silveira Molinology Sun, 02 Oct 2011 23:32:23 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,81,86#msg-86 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,81,86#msg-86
[tims.windmolens.be]

This is the website of Eddy De Saedeleer, who has made many photo's during the symposium.]]> Willem Molinology Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:12:48 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,83,85#msg-85 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,83,85#msg-85
During the symposium, I heart that original is the status the mill was in when it stopped working. The other extreme is that original is the way the mill was first built (even when that is 400 years ago).

In Germany some mills were (re)built the way it was done 200-300 years ago using the original techniques, materials and so on.

Can we have some inputs on this issue??]]> Willem Molinology Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:09:25 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,81,84#msg-84 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,81,84#msg-84
part1: [youtu.be]
part2: [youtu.be]
part3: [youtu.be]
part4: [youtu.be]
part5: [youtu.be]
part6: [youtu.be]
part7: [youtu.be]
part8: [youtu.be]
part9: [youtu.be]
part10: [youtu.be]

Regards and "Glück zu!" Gerald]]> Bost, Gerald Molinology Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:07:05 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,83,83#msg-83 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,83,83#msg-83
I would like to invite people, both participants and non-participants to continue the discussion here. This can be a broad discussion, feel free to start new topics if you feel a subtopic will otherwise not be noticed.

Some questions from my point of view to get the discussion started, but feel free to bring other points in the discussion:

- Is it correct to completely move the machinery of a horse driven mill to depot, and replace it with a replica to show the public how it has to work.

- With the preservation of mills, should we take the preservation of related crafts like the running of a mill, producing flower, making oil, but also the craft of millwright into account?

- What should the function of the mills be, and how does it impact preservation. How to we balance tourism and safety legislation with the fact that a mill is heritage as well.

Regards,

André Koopal]]> Akoopal Molinology Mon, 19 Sep 2011 20:58:50 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,82,82#msg-82 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,82,82#msg-82
I would like to ask readers to share experiences, how is the legislation in your country, did you already notice consequences, do you have ideas how to change this movement?

Regards,

André Koopal]]> Akoopal Molinology Mon, 19 Sep 2011 20:39:07 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,81,81#msg-81 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,81,81#msg-81
Regards,

André Koopal]]> Akoopal Molinology Mon, 19 Sep 2011 20:30:57 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?1,80,80#msg-80 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?1,80,80#msg-80
Regards,

André Koopal]]> Akoopal Announcements Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:01:22 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,76,78#msg-78 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,76,78#msg-78 It is a great help! Thank you.]]> ktboundary Molinology Sat, 09 Jul 2011 23:12:39 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,76,77#msg-77 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,76,77#msg-77
(mill) bill, dressing -, cracking Bille f, Breithammer m, Messer-
pick [with thrift, handle, stock] picke f [mit Griff m]
pick, pritchell, furrowing hammer (Spitz-)Picke f, Spitzhammer m

The above is from the TIMS Dictionary of Molinology
I hope it is of some help

kind regards
Tony Bonson]]> tonybonson Molinology Sat, 09 Jul 2011 21:46:08 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,76,76#msg-76 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,76,76#msg-76 Greetings! I'm inquiring on behalf of my father, who needs this information, but is not an internet user. What is the German translation of the words "mill pick" and "thrift"? Thanks very much.]]> ktboundary Molinology Sat, 09 Jul 2011 04:37:59 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,40,75#msg-75 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,40,75#msg-75
I am at present writing a short article about a particular corn/fulling mill in W Yorkshire. I would like to have some good information on malt milling and maltsters - how does the process and equipment differ from oat and corn grinding and did anglo saxons have mills?
Regards Ann Bennett]]> annjbennett Molinology Sat, 09 Jul 2011 00:18:06 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,71,74#msg-74 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,71,74#msg-74
I know of no mills processing cocoa beans these days in the Netherlands.

Most oil mills in the Zaan-area that survived into the 20th century has been processing cocoa-waste. I don't know to much about it, but I have understand that the windmills with their wedge-presses were able to better get the last cocoa-butter out. Probably the factories were more optimized at speed then at efficiency. Of course this is different from processing the beans.

'1000 Zaanse Molens' from Boorsma mentions that there were 8 windmills processing cocoa, and 33 processing cocoa-waste in the Zaan-area.

Regards,

Andre]]> Akoopal Molinology Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:44:17 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,68,73#msg-73 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,68,73#msg-73 -------------------------------------------------------
> Hello vicnewey,
>
> how is it possible to brake or control the
> rotation speet of boat mills?
>
> Best regards
> Olov Gibson


Hello Olov,
It is done by altering the height of the sluice board which is fixed directly in front of the wheel, because it works this way it makes no difference if the river rises or falls because of course the boat & sluice gate rise with it.
The lever which controls the sluice board has several different positions which lock in with a peg in a hole to allow different heights from full flow down to full stop.

You can see more close up detail of the model & how it was made here :- [www.vicnewey.co.uk]

best regards

Vic]]> vicnewey Molinology Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:47:59 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,68,72#msg-72 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,68,72#msg-72
how is it possible to brake or control the rotation speet of boat mills?

Best regards
Olov Gibson]]> Olov Gibson Molinology Sun, 12 Jun 2011 08:29:05 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,71,71#msg-71 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,71,71#msg-71 Hopper-Boy Molinology Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:44:39 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,70,70#msg-70 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,70,70#msg-70 Could they have been used as brakes for wind- or water mills ??

Please have a look at the following article: Ancient Grooves in Gotlantic Stone]]> Olov Gibson Molinology Tue, 07 Jun 2011 12:08:14 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,40,69#msg-69 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,40,69#msg-69
They also used edge runners, wooden rollers, French millstone material rollers, and then iron rollers. The English and German malt houses or kilns would have been similar to those used for roasting cocoa beans.

As for fulling mills they used fuller's earth and or horse urine with the pounding stocks in the process of softening (beating out the taylor) the newly woven cloth. It is just that some industries had a certain air about them. Bone mills ground the bones of dead animals. So a bone mill would be away from a flour mill to keep the maggots out of the flour. Washington Flour or Wilkins-Rogers that used to be in Georgetown was located next to a rendering plant that made glue from horse and cow hoofs. They had a large sign painted on the building that said, "The smell you smell does not emanate from this Facility!"]]> Hopper-Boy Molinology Mon, 06 Jun 2011 16:47:25 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,68,68#msg-68 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,68,68#msg-68
You can view it here :- boat mill model


The model will eventually be installed at Bishops Lydeard mill & museum in Somerset England to complete the the display of different types of mill
The setting may be somewhat out of context as it cannot feature a typical wide river such as featured in Daniela Graf's wonderful book 'Boat Mills in Europe' which perhaps some of you will have seen so the scenic setting is somewhat enhanced to make it more interesting for visitors - many of which are parties of schoolchildren.]]> vicnewey Molinology Sat, 25 Sep 2010 13:18:03 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,63,67#msg-67 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,63,67#msg-67 why don't you try to contact the writers of the book directly ??
And of course keep us informed.
Best regards
Willem]]> Willem Molinology Mon, 06 Sep 2010 21:38:37 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,63,66#msg-66 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,63,66#msg-66
To make this topic more clear, I have made a scan from the illustration which is placed in this book. You can find it in the link below.

[www.mijnalbum.nl]

The illustation suggests that this windmill (probably a post mill) only has a brake, which is made out of a rope. That means that there is in this situation no brake made out of wood or iron.

All the windmills in The Netherlands have a brake made out of wood or iron. My own windmill has a brake out of wood. But It keeps me wondering, if there are any mills left in North America, who have a brake which is made out of rope. I hope that there is anyone who can tell me that. And if someone has pictures or illustrations of it, please let me know.

I don't think it is possible that the writers of this book, just made this story up, without having proof for this situation. So there must be something known about this topic. I hope!

Regards,
Ruurd-Jakob Nauta
Miller at "Rispens" at Oosterend, NL
www.molenrispens.nl]]> Ruurd Jakob Nauta Molinology Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:52:04 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,63,65#msg-65 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,63,65#msg-65
It appears the question involves American windmills of the traditional European type.

As Professor Job would say - it all depends upon what you mean by Brake or is it Break. The English language is very confusing when trying to answer questions from another Continent but I will have to assume Brake as in brake wheel in a windmill. I have never seen rope used to slow a windmill in America but no doubt someone has tried it at some time in the past, but then there are so very few windmills here.
Wood or metal are the usual options. But it would be possible to use a rope to slow a windmill in an emergency by using a suitable length of strong heavy rope and carefully wrapping it around the moving shaft. It was a trick used by engineers in the early years to stop rotating shafts in a similar way to that applied to dynamometers. The procedure is to wrap the heavy rope around the shaft at least twice and in the same direction as the rotation. One end is secured to a suitable and convenient post or beam and the other end is free. When pulling on the free end, the pressure exerted will apply great force on the shaft and slow it down. It has a self servo action and is similar to early braking systems on motorcycles such as the 1928 Douglas. Any owner of such a machine will tell you how incredibly effective they are ! Of course the
rope generates lots of friction and thus a lot of heat, so it is important to prevent a fire - which is probably why rope was never seriously used in windmill brakes. I suppose a rope could be wrapped around the rim of a brake wheel but it would have to be fitted with flanges to prevent to rope falling off. Much better to stay with wood or metal brakes.

I used such a method many years ago in UK when I was called out in the middle of the night by Police to stop a fantail rotating on a windmill. The fan had broken loose in a high wind and stripped its driving gears and was making such a noise the local inhabitants had not slept for three days. I wrapped a rope around the rotating axle of the fan and slowed it down by the above method. A big cheer went up when it was finally stopped. I was paid for the adventure but not asked to repair the fan !!

Hope this might help but if the word is Break I do not have a clue.

Best wishes........................... Derek]]> Willem Molinology Mon, 23 Aug 2010 18:14:03 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,63,64#msg-64 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,63,64#msg-64 LisaRiggs Molinology Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:41:57 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,63,63#msg-63 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,63,63#msg-63
The text says:

When the miller wants to stop gronding, he pulls down the lever at bottom left, which tightens a rope that runs in a groove round the brake wheel, bringing it to stop and, with it, the sails.

I am wondering if there are still windmills who work with this construction? Maybe there is anybody who has pictures of it? Maybe the members in North America know more about this interesting topic.

I hope someone of you can tell me a little more about it. At the Dutch Mill forum, nobody gave a reaction on this topic.

Kind Regards,
Ruurd-Jakob Nauta]]> Ruurd Jakob Nauta Molinology Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:42:58 +0200 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,48,62#msg-62 http://forum.molinology.org/read.php?11,48,62#msg-62
meanwhile I added many other mills of germany and netherlands with pictures and very many mills without pictures where some other mill enthousiasts send me locations. Leo told me that he can send me some pictures of watermills to and after that I will have a look which pictures are missing.

Here are the actual links:

[gpsdatabase.molinology.org]

CU

Ansgar]]> Ansgar Molinology Thu, 13 May 2010 14:47:43 +0200